Request for help regarding a hadith
“Very early in the morning on the day of ‘Aqabah, the messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) while riding on his camel said to me: ‘pick some pebbles for me’. I then picked seven hurling pebbles for him. While dusting them of his hands he said: thou shall not cast except with such pebbles. Then he said: O mankind! Beware of extremism in religion for those before you were destroyed as a result of extremism in religion”
Related by Ibn Majah, Hadith no.(3029).
5.
So.
Did the folks putting the Khudi site together just get the hadith citation wrong — or is there more here than meets my eye? I would very much appreciate any help in explaining what at present seems to me a somewhat confusing picture.
If the hadith is authentic and can be found as stated in Sahih Bukhari, the pre-eminent source for hadith, and can be referenced from the English translation of Bukhari on the USC site, that would itself be a help. If so, it would also be of interest to know what kind of hermeneutic AQ deploys to get around it.
And if it is always found in the original sources, Bukhari or otherwise, in association with the comments about small “hurling pebbles” — why, that raises yet other questions.
6.
TIA — in this case meaning thanks in advance, not transient ischemic attack!
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TR Furnish:
March 13th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
Charles,
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Here’s the Hadith you probably mean:
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From Bukhari, book 34, #6450.
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Best translation is probably “The nit-pickers/obsessive-about/overly-prolix are [or will be] annihilated/destroyed.” The subject “mutanati`un” is from the verb “nuti`a,” which really does not have anything about “being an extremist” (some Islamic sites trasnlate this “Ruined are the extremists”) but rather refers, as a verbal noun, to those who engage in nit-picking or unhealthy, overlong explanations. It can also, ironically, mean “being overnice.” This hadith does not appear to be the blanket condemnation of “extremists” (=jihadists) that some make it out to be.
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Tim Furnish
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[ edited by CC to insert a graphic of the Arabic text as supplied by Dr Furnish in an email to me — originally his Arabic appeared here as a series of ???? ?? for which he graciously apologized in a second comment that I removed once I’d inserted the graphic — hence the comment from Zen that follows ]
zen:
March 13th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
Dr. Furnish, our software can barely handle commenting in English 🙂
TR Furnish:
March 13th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Thanks Zen. Didn’t mean to diss your software.
Charles, I think this hadith is more a negative commentary on schlolars, possibly on Christian ones who would have questioned the Muhammad “revelation” on exegetical (or other) grounds. Very like this hadith comes from a time after Muhammad, and reflects (as many do) the rhetorical and partisan battles in and around the early Muslim community (between Islamic schools of thought/proto-sects, as well as with mainly Christian critics).
Again, there’s really no sense that it’s aimed at the overzealous or “fanatical” Muslim.
Tim
TR Furnish:
March 13th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Er, I meant “Muhammadan.”
Dr. Usama Hasan:
May 11th, 2012 at 10:41 am
Dear all,
Charles Cameron also wrote to us at Quilliam about this matter. I thought I’d share my reply with you all:
1) The hadith mentioned on the Khudi blog is authentic, but unfortunately the reference has been inadvertently mixed up with another hadith; we will correct this. The correct reference for the hadith is: Ahmad (nos. 1851 & 3248), Nasa’i, Ibn Majah, Hakim & others – cf. Sahih al-Jami’ al-Saghir of M.N. al-Albani, no. 2680 & Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Sahihah of M.N. al-Albani, no. 1283. For example, the Arabic text from Nasa’i is:
See http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&BookID=27&TOCID=1572
2) On the zenpundit website, Tim Furnish has provided and translated another hadith related to the topic.
3) Coincidentally, hadiths 1-2 above are nos. 1 & 3 in Section 2 of my paper, “The Threat from Extremism to Islam & the World,” presented at “The Message of Peace in Islam” conference in Damascus, 2009, organised by the UK & Syrian governments. You may wish to read the paper on my personal blog here: http://unity1.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/the-threat-from-extremism-to-islam-and-the-world-usama-hasan.pdf
Charles Cameron:
May 11th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
I’d like to thank Dr Hasan for his courteous response, and for the link to his paper, which I hope to quote in an upcoming post or posts.