{"id":56536,"date":"2017-08-16T06:34:37","date_gmt":"2017-08-16T06:34:37","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/zenpundit.com\/?p=56536"},"modified":"2017-08-16T06:35:39","modified_gmt":"2017-08-16T06:35:39","slug":"orwell-fascism-c-we-need-our-own-red-lines-but-where","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/?p=56536","title":{"rendered":"Orwell, Fascism, &#038;c &#8211; we need our own red lines, but where?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>[ by <strong>Charles Cameron<\/strong> &#8212; how far gone are we &#8212; from a sorta leftist-centrist-don&#8217;t-really-fit-labels POV? ]<br \/>\n.<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-lang=\"en\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">I mean, Orwell is going to claw his way out of the grave here<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; J.M. Berger (@intelwire) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/intelwire\/status\/897551013745500161\">August 15, 2017<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I&#8217;m not sure what exactly <strong>JM <\/strong>was responding to here, there have been too many pointers..<\/p>\n<p>**<\/p>\n<p>I for one don&#8217;t think <strong>Charlottesville<\/strong> stacks up against <strong>Kristallnacht<\/strong>, and am wary of the words <strong>Fascism<\/strong> and <strong>Nazi<\/strong>. I wholeheartedly agree with <strong>JM Berger<\/strong> in his piece today, <a href=\"http:\/\/news.intelwire.com\/2017\/08\/calling-them-nazis.html\">Calling them Nazis<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>There\u2019s an increasingly common argument online against referring to the alt-right by its chosen name. \u201cCall them Nazis\u201d is the refrain. If you haven\u2019t said it yourself, you\u2019ve probably seen other people saying it.<\/p>\n<p>While this approach may be understandable and may suit certain rhetorical purposes, it\u2019s a grave mistake for journalists and experts who substantively study and cover the movement to embrace this approach.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>JM continues:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The alt-right category is extremely important to understanding what\u2019s happening in this movement. Nazis are only part of this movement, or more correctly neo-Nazis, since most of them aren&#8217;t German nationalists. If neo-Nazis were America\u2019s only problem, it would be a much smaller problem.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>**<\/p>\n<p>My concern here is with a somewhat different angle, and not specifically with the Charlottesville clashes. I&#8217;m noting the widespread tendency to suggest we&#8217;re already in Brownshirt territory, if not deeper in than that, and I think it may be a bit premature.<\/p>\n<p>IMO, we need to be cautious in where we draw the lines that say, beyond here is Fascism, or Nazism, it seems to me: exaggeration only serves to discredit those who indulge.<\/p>\n<p>There are real problems, both with overt swastika-wavers and with those who support or merely tolerate them. Which way the wind will blow over the coming few years, however, is yet to be seen.<\/p>\n<p>**<\/p>\n<p>However, getting back to <strong>Orwell<\/strong> &#8212;<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/zenpundit.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/Tablet-DQ-crossing-the-1984-line.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"600\" height=\"870\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-56544\" srcset=\"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/Tablet-DQ-crossing-the-1984-line.png 600w, https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/08\/Tablet-DQ-crossing-the-1984-line-207x300.png 207w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>&#8212; it does seem to me that scooping up more than a million IP addresses of epople who may have an interest in protesting <strong>Trump <\/strong>gies way beyond some kind of <strong>Orwell Limit<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Orwell kept his resistance movement cellular and basically unnowable: datamining the web blows an enormous hole in that strategy.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;d have to say that with today&#8217;s news about <strong>DOJ vs DisruptJ20<\/strong>, one of my personal <strong>Orwell Red Lines<\/strong> has been crossed.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>[ by Charles Cameron &#8212; how far gone are we &#8212; from a sorta leftist-centrist-don&#8217;t-really-fit-labels POV? ] . I mean, Orwell is going to claw his way out of the grave here &mdash; J.M. Berger (@intelwire) August 15, 2017 I&#8217;m not sure what exactly JM was responding to here, there have been too many pointers.. [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1514,917,526,1314,627,1205,51,858,897,652,295,1165,693,936,1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-56536","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-alt-right","category-big-data","category-charles-cameron","category-donald-trump","category-doublequotes","category-fascism","category-history","category-internet","category-jm-berger-2","category-literature","category-nazis","category-orwell","category-social-media","category-surveillance","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56536","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=56536"}],"version-history":[{"count":13,"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56536\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":56552,"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56536\/revisions\/56552"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=56536"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=56536"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/zenpundit.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=56536"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}