I’m in the middle of Sherman’s book, and it’s a fine book written about stoicism, but so far I don’t think it captures the essences of stoic philosophy. It merely describes traits of stoic thought as they relate to the military life.
Hi guys,
.
I’ve heard of the Sherman book from an article in the Trib last year but I have not read it. Any chance for a future Smitten Eagle book review at Chicago Boyz ?
.
Read Meditations several times, struck by some of the parallels with Zen thought. The Stoics had attitudes on some subjects of which Zen monks would have heartily approved. Have to go pick up Discourses.
Sure, but I’ve promised dan tdaxp a review of his book, and I will keep my word on that.
.
If you wish, I may revisit the Sherman book for a review on CB and my blog (both of which I’ve been neglecting lately. But I shall return.)
"I don’t think it captures the essences of stoic philosophy:
How about recommending one that does? My anti-library awaits…
Chris:
September 15th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Gentlemen,
In the interests of getting Smitten Eagle out of doing this book review, James McCormick wrote a lengthy meditation based around this book last March. You can either follow this link (http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4871.html) or just search chicagoboyz for "stoic."
My core criticism of Sherman thus far is that she dissects stoic philosophy in the military context as an outsider. In doing so she only discusses various stoic traits in a manner not unlike the way a person interested in conversion to Christianity would ask a Professor of Religious Studies about the tenets of the faith, rather than speaking to an actual, practicing Christian.
.
She misses core points of what it means to BE stoic: What drives men to adopt stoic philosophy? And what it’s like for a man to endure a crucible of pains, desires, and anguish only to realize that even things we thought are in our span of control are, in actuality, well outside of it. These things can even include your person, your reputation, as well as all material desires. How a man endures and even frees himself from those false connections to the material world is what stoicism is really about, and so far, Sherman seems to miss the point, in my view. (Also, temper my views thus far with the fact that I’m only about 50% complete with her book. My views may change as I near completion).
.
To those interested in stoic philosphy, I usually recommend three books: 1) Thoughts of a Philosophical Fighter Pilot, by Stockdale. 2) Good to Great, by Collins (this is a business leadership/management book, but it actually describes how to implement stoic ideals on an organizational level, and is an awesome book.) 3) The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius.
.
Incidentally, I have heard from a number of sources that General James Mattis, USMC, is also something of a stoic philosopher himself, and apparently recommends my second and third books I cited as his two favorite books.
It sounds like Sherman has the structure or the form but not the content of stoicism, at least military stoicism of Roman antiquity. I’d kind of like to hear someone like Paul Cartledge or Adrian Goldsworthy expound on the differences, if any, between the early Greek stoics and the Roman stoics of the imperial period. There’s a lengthy interval between Zeno and Epictetus and when major schools of thought or religions make the jump to new cultures, some evolution is inevitable.
Damn, checked into the bookstore today to see if the Penguin ed of Epictetus’s Discourses has arrived. Delayed until November.
.
I read Marcus Aurelius’s Meditations frequently, and have even lent a copy to two of my staff. Seneca is worth reading as well.
Charles Cameron (hipbone):
September 14th, 2008 at 5:03 am
Fine.
.
You know Nancy Sherman, Stoic Warriors: The Ancient Philosophy behind the Military Mind, Zen?
Kotare:
September 14th, 2008 at 5:49 am
Smitten Eagle put me onto Stockdale’s Stoic writings. They’re good value.
I’ve ordered a copy of the new Penguin edition of Epictetus’s Discourses. This’ll go straight to the top of the pile.
Smitten Eagle:
September 14th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
As many know, I’m a huge fan of stoicism.
I’m in the middle of Sherman’s book, and it’s a fine book written about stoicism, but so far I don’t think it captures the essences of stoic philosophy. It merely describes traits of stoic thought as they relate to the military life.
deichmans:
September 14th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Zen, Looks like your "Anti-Library" is about to get a bit bigger…. 🙂
zen:
September 14th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Hi guys,
.
I’ve heard of the Sherman book from an article in the Trib last year but I have not read it. Any chance for a future Smitten Eagle book review at Chicago Boyz ?
.
Read Meditations several times, struck by some of the parallels with Zen thought. The Stoics had attitudes on some subjects of which Zen monks would have heartily approved. Have to go pick up Discourses.
Smitten Eagle:
September 14th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Zen-
Sure, but I’ve promised dan tdaxp a review of his book, and I will keep my word on that.
.
If you wish, I may revisit the Sherman book for a review on CB and my blog (both of which I’ve been neglecting lately. But I shall return.)
zen:
September 15th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Sounds good to me! Gracias!
purpleslog:
September 15th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
SMitt:
"I don’t think it captures the essences of stoic philosophy:
How about recommending one that does? My anti-library awaits…
Chris:
September 15th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Gentlemen,
In the interests of getting Smitten Eagle out of doing this book review, James McCormick wrote a lengthy meditation based around this book last March. You can either follow this link (http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4871.html) or just search chicagoboyz for "stoic."
Take care,
Chris
Smitten Eagle:
September 16th, 2008 at 1:40 am
My core criticism of Sherman thus far is that she dissects stoic philosophy in the military context as an outsider. In doing so she only discusses various stoic traits in a manner not unlike the way a person interested in conversion to Christianity would ask a Professor of Religious Studies about the tenets of the faith, rather than speaking to an actual, practicing Christian.
.
She misses core points of what it means to BE stoic: What drives men to adopt stoic philosophy? And what it’s like for a man to endure a crucible of pains, desires, and anguish only to realize that even things we thought are in our span of control are, in actuality, well outside of it. These things can even include your person, your reputation, as well as all material desires. How a man endures and even frees himself from those false connections to the material world is what stoicism is really about, and so far, Sherman seems to miss the point, in my view. (Also, temper my views thus far with the fact that I’m only about 50% complete with her book. My views may change as I near completion).
.
To those interested in stoic philosphy, I usually recommend three books: 1) Thoughts of a Philosophical Fighter Pilot, by Stockdale. 2) Good to Great, by Collins (this is a business leadership/management book, but it actually describes how to implement stoic ideals on an organizational level, and is an awesome book.) 3) The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius.
.
Incidentally, I have heard from a number of sources that General James Mattis, USMC, is also something of a stoic philosopher himself, and apparently recommends my second and third books I cited as his two favorite books.
zen:
September 16th, 2008 at 2:50 am
It sounds like Sherman has the structure or the form but not the content of stoicism, at least military stoicism of Roman antiquity. I’d kind of like to hear someone like Paul Cartledge or Adrian Goldsworthy expound on the differences, if any, between the early Greek stoics and the Roman stoics of the imperial period. There’s a lengthy interval between Zeno and Epictetus and when major schools of thought or religions make the jump to new cultures, some evolution is inevitable.
zen:
September 16th, 2008 at 4:02 am
Just ordered The Discourses of Epictetus and The Enchiridion
Kotare:
September 17th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Damn, checked into the bookstore today to see if the Penguin ed of Epictetus’s Discourses has arrived. Delayed until November.
.
I read Marcus Aurelius’s Meditations frequently, and have even lent a copy to two of my staff. Seneca is worth reading as well.