Query to the Readers…
My esteemed colleague Dan of tdaxp recently suggested making use of the micropublishing service Nimble to put the Osinga Roundtable on Science, Strategy and War at Chicago Boyz into dead-tree, published format. This was seconded via email by another blogfriend who did not participate in the roundtable but 
would like a hard copy for his own purposes. If I were to set about doing this, I’d envision trying to get permission to include a few related pieces from outside the scope of the roundtable contributions that would extend and enrich the reader’s understanding of John Boyd and give them a book that, while slim in size, would still be substantive and tightly focused.
Before I embark on getting the ball rolling with the interested parties, is there a desire out there for such a book ? Assuming I get everyone’s buy-in and permission, the cost would run around $17 + , more or less, plus whatever Nimble might charge for shipping and handling.
February 14th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
I’m down.
February 14th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Sounds like a good idea. There are still plenty of instances out there where the only valid references allowed are the ones that have had trees sacrificed to their altars of knowledge.
It might even help future roundtables to draw contribution, commentary and interest.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
The book will not have hyperlinks. Bad.
The book might get more attention than a bunch of blog posts. Good.
Could you get it onto Amazon? That is where the world does its key word searches for books. If it were there, searches for "John Boyd" would turn it up. Searches for Osinga’s book would push it at the reader.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I don’t get the point of the hard-copy print. I’m still ruminating on all the posts and have built a 32-page M$ Word doc for quick reference. If I want hard-copy, I’ll use my own ink-jet printer at a cost far less than $17.
Regarding references, I think electronic citations have become perfectly acceptable, per Walker and Taylor’s Columbia Guide to Online Style. I think Lexington Green is bang-on: Boyd didn’t do a book because he preferred to *do* and refine the slide pack and his presentations, vis to *be* an author. So why not do the Boydeois thing, and eschew the "Ivory Towers of academe"? [from Deichmann’s post] Or reframe the roundtable into a legendary slide pack, Patterns of Boyd? ;-\
Printing the roundtable posts would lose the granular dialectic of post-and-comment. (I well realize that the posts themselves are a coarser dialectic w.r.t. Osinga’s book.) Something would be lost in the (d)evolution from on-line to off-line. How about getting the URL for the roundtable on References or External Links of the John Boyd (military strategist) wikipedia page?
February 15th, 2008 at 1:41 am
Amazon lists other books by Nimble, so I imagine it shouldn’t be a problem.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:55 am
Moon is right, but his analysis is incomplete.
For those of us who like this sort of thing, blog symposia are not somehow lesser beings than books. To the contrary.
The point would be to reach other audiences who might never think of looking at a blog called "ChicagoBoyz" or "Zenpundit" or "TDAXP".
It is not "instead of" it is "in addition to".
So, something would be lost: Yes.
But something might be gained: more readers.
February 15th, 2008 at 4:30 am
Let’s Roll!
February 15th, 2008 at 5:06 am
Heh. HG’s enthusiasm is contagious.
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Technical question – directed more at Dan and any lurkers who are techies – Gunnar Peterson (1 Raindrop) via email today recommended Lulu.com over Nimble. Dave Davison (thoughts illustrated) previously recommended Lulu to me as well. Which is better for this purpose ? ( i.e. easier for me to publish and/or cheaper/more convenient for readers to purchase – I’ll do extra work if it makes a difference but my schedule has very finite free time as evidenced by my frequent 10 pm -1 am blogging)
February 15th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Folks, I missed the point. Though I wouldn’t pay $17 for something I’ve already highly enjoyed in its original medium, someone else new might pony the coin for a glossy. I see the light now. On-board.
February 15th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Zen, Roll on!
February 15th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I will note that hitting “print this post” on each CB post gives it to you formatted with endnotes for each hyperlink, which removes one point of possible hassle. Mere child’s play to put each one into a Word and prettify.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
W.F. Zimmerman of Nimble compared the two companies as follows:
"It’s pretty simple. Nimble Books is a publisher. We bear all the costs of production. There are no fees to you at all.
Lulu is a service. A lot of people have had good experiences with them, but there are some fees to you."
I have no publishing experience with either company. I first heard of Nimble gave me a manuscript of Misquotes in Misquoting Jesus to review. I’ve never interacted with Lulu.
It appears that both Lulu and Nimble are on Amazon.com as well as Google Book Search.
For my selfish motives, "Nimble Books" probably looks better in a references list of bibliography than "Lulu.com," just as a bound book looks better than a hyperlink.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
I’m trying to move out of the dead-tree-collecting business, but I’m involved in developing a book, so I’m watching with interest.
February 15th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Thanks Dan – that’s an important distinction.
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I think Lex hit upon the important variable – "additional" readers. This is clearly a niche topic. Who would need or want this discussion in a book format ? Aside from the participants and hardcore blog fans you have admirers of John Boyd plus ppl with an academic or professional interest in military theory who want or are required to use a citation of a book and not a URL when writing monographs or papers. Institutional buyers who have already plunked down $ 150 for a hardcover copy of Science, Strategy and War are not likely to blink at Nimble’s prices.
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Nimble might be the perfect platform for Michael Tanji’s Think Tank 2.0 concept – case in point – CKR’s recent nuclear weapons policy symposium is along the same lines as the Osinga Roundtable. Great info – useful for many ppl but not conventionally packaged for those with formal criteria to meet.
February 15th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Every engineer, coder or techie of any flavor who has been around the block knows the deal: What you _think_ everyone should have/do is different from what everyone actually _wants_ to have/do. We should all have Kindles or eBook readers and tens of gigs of text in our pockets for perusing anywhere . . . but we don’t. If you’re an aspiring xGW student in BFE who doesn’t have their Negroponte-issued laptop-ette, a dog-eared library copy of the symposium-and-related-works-as-primer might be your only option. Shoot, you just might be one of those folks that hates trees. 😉
If the expenses aren’t outrageous, and the potential demand is there, seems like a no-brainer to me.
February 15th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Guys,
just checking in … looks like a good discussion. For what it’s worth, I know exactly who John Boyd is … I’m part of your target audience! That’s usually a good thing in a publisher.
OODA Loopily yours,
Fred Zimmerman
Publisher, Nimble Books LLC
February 15th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Hi Fred
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Welcome!
Nimble sounds like a great company; based upon the dialogue here and from email, I circulated a note this morning to all the roundtable participants asking for their agreement and permission to proceed. I still need to hear from half of them ( wide time zone spread) but assuming that the rest will be receptive, I think we can move forward and discuss the process either via email or by phone.
zenpundit@hotmail.com
February 15th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
re: "…aspiring xGW students in BFE", the dissonance of that phrase is ringing my head inside out. (That’s a complimentary remark.)
re: Nimble, if Osinga Roundtable sells a dozen copies a month for a couple of months, is that enough to get traditional/academic citations for the authors (via Amazon, Google Books, wherever) ?
February 16th, 2008 at 4:25 am
I think you should use your resources to find a copy of one of Boyds presentations and make a webcast out of it. Please do not take this in the wrong way-as I find your whole network of blogs to be the best on the net-but what was so speacial about your reviews? Why does it need to be put on published paper? The best reason to do so, is to get experince in this kind of thing. Maybe you folks want to write in the future as a team and need to start somewhere.
February 16th, 2008 at 5:06 am
Hi Moon,
That question is best directed at Dan as I am a decade out of academia and he is hip deep in it right now.
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Hi Seerov,
I’d like that as well but it is something completely out of my hands as well as beyond my competence . Dr. Chet Richards is authorized to give Boyd’s briefs and occasionally does so and your best bet is to ask him or attend the Boyd 2008 conference.
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As for the reviews, I’ve asked for feedback here and some have said "yes" and others " no" which is fine. It’s a very esoteric subject which probably explains the interest from a micropublishing angle.
February 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Zen,
it would seem that if people want to understand Boyd and his ideas, we should see his prefered method of presenting these ideas. I’ll try to contact Mr. Richards and see what I can come up with.
February 17th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
"… I’ve asked for feedback here and some have said "yes" and others " no" …"
Odd that someone would be willing to put something up on the Net that has their name on it and is accessible to the world, but not put the exact same written material in a paper "book" that will be accessible to very few people.
Does this reflect my long-held suspicion that blogs are so low down and beneath respect that "whatever you say there stays there" and somehow does not "count", where any "book publication" of the exact same language somehow carries more weight and has to be carefully considered?
Or am I not getting something?
February 18th, 2008 at 12:36 am
hi Lex,
No, I think "low" and "high" are the wrong descriptors. Informal and formal or open vs. closed might be better. Blog posts run toward the conversational, open and interactive and they are subject to continuous editing, at least by the blogger. Books, once published, are not. Later editions might be revised but the earlier versions remain
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Obviously, the quality of the argument should be determinative, not the format in which it is transmitted. My original query had more to do with my time, as in are the readers ( and contributors) sufficiently interested in this to merit further effort here. So far, I’d say the answer is yes but I have not had any response from Wilf, Frans or Adam yet.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:10 am
Well, as you know, my two cents is that it would be worth doing just to push the envelope.
BTW my shiny copy of Osinga’s paperback came recently. It is still pricey, but not enough to deter most people seriously interested in Boyd. The $150 hardcover was a non-starter, though.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Yeah, I think it’s worth running up the flagpole just to see if it begets a trend.
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That price was an insane decision by the publisher, even by academic press standards. He must have only run 100 copies! Hopefully, for Osinga, the softcover will give him some "legs" in the marketplace of ideas as wel l as the actual marketplace. I need to order a copy myself.